Phil: 0:04

Welcome to Take Your Medicine podcast today. I'm Phil the pharmacist like every day, but today I'm a huge fan because I have Jocelyn McClellan. We have been friends. Since the beginning of social media, she has pulled me out of so many fires. She is sweet. She is nice. She is wise and she has great hair and makeup. So Jocelyn, thanks for being here.

Jocelyn: 0:26

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. It has been so fun to see you work your magic of how to. Show up. Like you, you're, you're showing that you can do things differently than how we've been raised of just going into the pharmacy and filling the pills and taking like, you're taking it to a next level with how you educate and you make it fun. You are the MacGyver of medicine.

Phil: 0:50

Well, the, the fun thing with this has been from the beginning is seeing an empowerment of people because I think that for a long time. People are in a position where a doctor said, do this, take your medicine. And they felt like they had to. And so when I meet people like you who said, no, that's not good enough. It really made me think I need to get these stories. So people can feel like I can do this, like that's all I want is people think I can do this because there are good doctors, there are bad doctors, there are good voodoo doctors, there are bad voodoo doctors, there's, you know, I always, we have literal medicine man up in Preston and there's one that's really great, one that's really crazy, and so I love meeting people like you said, okay, I'm gonna do this, This is my journey and we're gonna go for it

Jocelyn: 1:33

I love that. Well, I think everybody needs to, it's too easy to just do what everybody tells you you should do and to act in a way that everybody tells you you should act and to go to work to 9 to 5 and to come home. Where you come from work, you sit on the couch, you watch the TV. That's how you do things. And that's how, you know, families have always thought it to be. And so, I think that we're finally realizing, I can still work a 9 to 5, but make it be on my terms. I can still, you know, find my hobbies and my desires and my passions, but do it on my terms. I can put that into even my work life. I can create a work life that fits my, what I want it to be at home. And so I think we're getting to this point where we can actually start doing things, how we want to do things and still have a full life and get paid. For the jobs that we do and enjoy what we do, throughout it all. Cause as a mom, I think it always was like, moms, what do you like to do? I don't know. I never have time for that. Yes, you do. Let's figure out how though, in all the things that when I was going through all my sick times and I had the young children and the internet wasn't how it is now. You didn't know a lot of stuff, but what I didn't have was, even knowing how to find a voice where I can still be an amazing mom of young kids and take care of me. And I think it, it just comes down to finding your voice more than, more than anything else.

Phil: 2:54

Oh, absolutely. And it's, it's having the courage to follow that voice. The key to having any good sponsorship is having a product that you believe in. The product in this case is creatine and protein from Sports Research. And the reason why I trust it is because they've been around forever. They've made a good product. For so long, you know, you're what you're going to get every single time. And as you get older, or when you're trying to really push on that exercising, you want to make sure the product you're getting actually works because, well, you don't want to put that effort in for nothing. So sportsresearch.com put in the code PHIL20, you get extra percentage. And here's the best part. It really works. And it's been working for so long. It was an easy sponsorship. sportsresearch.com PHIL20. Life has never moved faster than it does right now. Can you imagine a time where everything happens in 15 to 90 second increments? No wonder our brains are overtaxed and there's no wonder why everybody's looking for a solution to that. When I look for solutions for cognition to keep up with brain health, I always think acetylcholine before I think stimulants. More caffeine usually doesn't solve any of the problems. Avantera has Elevate. Now in Elevate, they have specifically designed it to help with focus, memory and learning rather than just more stimulant. So AvanteraHealth.com put in, TAKEYOURMEDICINE as the code, save some money. This product has been amazing to me. The focus was there without all the jittery. AvanteraHealth.com TAKEYOURMEDICINE as the code. I love this stuff. Now, you were raised in Vernal, Utah, right?

Jocelyn: 4:24

Very small Vernal, Utah, on the, like, right by the Colorado Wyoming type border. Yes.

Phil: 4:30

I actually really love it out there, and I think you do too, but there's a lot of people who would say, what are you doing out there? It's just because they don't know where to go. I've got some of your background, we're looking at some of your stories. You had a point when you're, like, 14 in Vernal, Utah. Your access to health care was hardly anything, almost nothing. So I do,

Jocelyn: 4:48

I do like to say in Vernal, if you want to die, go to that hospital.

4:53

It's a good way to go, right?

Jocelyn: 4:55

But there's just, it's such a, it's a small town and I don't know how their medical field is now, but people don't. run to live in Vernal.

Phil: 5:05

Not for medical health. That is for sure. No, that is absolutely for sure. So let's take us back. Just, I like to start at the very beginning of a story where that. Thing happens where you're never going to be the same. There's those moments where you're like, okay, this has got it. I've got to do something different. So can you just take us back, kind of walk us through what it looked like to be at 14 and kind of walk into what you were dealing with at the time?

Jocelyn: 5:30

So, 14, loving my life, living my life, so anybody that doesn't know where little Vernal, Utah is, it is three hours from Salt Lake City. There is no big town around it. So it's kind of in the middle of nowhere. And I'm raised in the hicks, with parents that, my mom is more on the natural path, and my dad, he kind of raised himself, and, he's not going to pay attention to a symptom or do anything about it. He's just going to move on with life. And so my every day was showing horses, rodeoing, and we're just working hard. And just one day I'm riding the bus. I lived way far away from, you know, town. So the bus rides were very long and. And it was just like, you better get on that bus or you're going to get your butt kicked kind of thing. And cause I don't have time for that. I gotta be to work. And so I'm, I'm going up the bus on, on, you know, to get on it. And it's like, Oh, I don't feel good. And then I'm like, no, but I got to catch this bus. And I start walking some more and it's like, no, I don't feel good. And I, you know, I still remember teetering at 14 and I'm 42 now teetering back and forth. Like there's like the devil and the angel, do I get on the bus or do I not get on the bus kind of thing. And then finally it was like, get your butt home. And on my way home, that's when the sickness happened. We'll keep this rated G and I have never been the same since. So I ended up my mom did take me to get blood work done. Um, and stool samples. And they said I had a parasite and amoeba. And, um, but that's pretty much as far as it got, because within that, I, um, was with having a mom, that's a naturopath. They did do some things at first. They kept me on medication for two weeks. And then after that, I was on my own. It didn't get better. I think they put me on medication one more time. Um, can't fully remember cause again, I was a kid, but that wasn't at a point where, who are you going to ask questions to I'm in small town USA. And, that's just, that's not my parents forte to be diving in, digging in this, but here you have this slender young girl who was perfectly fine the day before, and now she's not fine. And she never got fine. They didn't know at the level I think of how bad it was because at that point then too, you couldn't Google anything. In fact, this came about before Google. That's how old.

Phil: 8:02

It was good times back then when there was no Google.

Jocelyn: 8:08

It was great times. You had to figure out everything on your own. Yeah. And so It just got put under the wayside and it, I would go to my horse shows and I would have to go to the bathroom and, pray that there was not going to be anything happening while I'm in the show ring, being judged. And those could last if it was a stronger competition, each class could last well over an hour. Being a girl that's sick in a class that has to last well over an hour, I had to make sure that, uh, I wasn't going to get sick. So no eating could happen even. Beforehand or else it was not going to turn well.

Phil: 8:43

We're totally going to jump into that because we want to sensitively approach that effect because it's got to mess with your mental health a lot. And then people always like to, it's safer for everybody to be able to put a diagnosis, to take a person, put them in a box, say this is what they are and make a lot of sense out of it. But I think that that's a real problem in the medical system because they think they can slap a diagnosis on your forehead, punk, put it right there and say, okay, we're done. Good job. You're diagnosed, right? Well, instead of doing that, just how would you describe, there's leaky gut, there's IBS, there's, there's parasites, all of this is part of Jocelyn, but it also has to do, it messed with my head, I started having autoimmune orders, so, in your own words, how would you describe your diagnosis? Or how you would describe who you are if you don't want it to be a diagnosis, you know? Yeah. Cause I actually do hate it when people get labeled, this is your diagnosis. And then they walk out there. I think it's an awful way to do it. So

Jocelyn: 9:41

Yeah. Yeah. I, at that point though, there at that point at 14. There couldn't be a diagnosis because it was just like, we'll give you these medicines. And then get, you know, better. My mom was really into the muscle testing stuff. I don't remember what they asked in the muscle testing, but she would always just do that muscle testing that got me absolutely nowhere. So there was never a diagnosis besides you have a parasite. Move on. I had no idea at that point that food could affect it. I didn't put two and two together that when I ate and what I ate was going to give me anything. So it wasn't until I was married for a few years that I actually got some type of diagnosis. But I went from being sick at 14, All through high school, I was being, just rumors were going around that I was bulimic, but they would get to me because I would go, I would eat school lunch, and then I'd be sick and, and have to go to the bathroom. So they took it as me going to the bathroom was that. I was bulimic and that massively affected me. I couldn't go on dates how I wanted to go on dates. This one date was with a friend that, he actually had me come out to Logan to do that date. He didn't know I had health issues. We were places with no bathrooms. I was scared as could be the whole entire time. So he kept saying what, you know, have I done something wrong, but I was just extremely uncomfortable because the whole time I was panicking with these strangers. So, I grew up in fight or flight. I grew up in feeling, like I couldn't fully be me, but nobody understood me. I wasn't getting help I didn't know what to do with it. And as a, as a younger kid, it's just, is at that point too, is this what life is? Like, is this just part of life? So then I went, got into hair school and in hair school, I loved doing hair, but I couldn't even cut somebody's hair without having to say, can you excuse me? And on some days it would be extremely bad where I'm cutting a man's haircut and I left him four or five times. And it became very embarrassing. Like, why are you having to walk away from me four or five times? Like a man's haircut is a 30 minute haircut. That's insanity. And to be completely honest with you, when I have to tell, because I deal with makeup and hair and I love hair so much, and I have to tell people that I never got my hair license. I didn't get my hair license not because I wasn't able to. I was not a dropout. I was very good at what I did. I didn't get my hair license because I would have had to take a timed test. With a model that at that time they had made the models be live models. They couldn't be mannequins. So I had to find a live model that wanted a really ugly haircut that I would have had to fix after.

Phil: 12:33

You were in Vernal, so there were a few that you could have found.

Jocelyn: 12:35

Well, I was in Logan for this.

Phil: 12:36

Oh, well, we have plenty here, too. You could have gone with the big hair bangs up front. You could have got it. They're still out there.

Jocelyn: 12:42

You had to do a very specific haircut, and it's not one that people like. But, I couldn't, it was the time testing. I was like, there is no way I can do this. And so more than anything, my insecurities got the best of me. I probably could have done it, but my insecurities of the embarrassment on a time test for me to have to say, I have to go to the bathroom. And at that point, nobody talked about stomach problems.

Phil: 13:04

No, especially for women. Like, men would just do what they wanted, like we've always done. Like, you just do what you need to. But women, there's always been a huge level of embarrassment that you even use the bathroom. The idea that a girl poos is, is off limits. It doesn't actually happen. I didn't even know they could until I was way late in life, you know.

Jocelyn: 13:23

That is so true. They just did not talk about it. And so it was lonely. It was super lonely. And I would go to the ER, in so much pain and having so many issues. And they would tell me, you just have like a stomach bug. And I'm like, this is not a stomach bug. I have something going on, but they just go home. And so then it got to the point where why even go to the ER? Why go anywhere? I'm not gonna get the help.

Phil: 13:52

Can we jump back just a second?'cause I, I'm really curious with that precipitating moment of the, uh, the parasite. So you were all good. You get a parasite now we know that when that parasite goes in there, it releases all sorts of antibodies. It causes the gut lining to start to react different. You've got chronic inflammation and it'll set off your immune system to where your immune system will now recognize things that aren't allergies, as allergies. So there's a lot of people who still think, you know, gluten intolerance or having celiac disease. Like they kind of like, what is all this stuff? It didn't exist before. And so I want to kind of jump back because that precipitating moment, most people don't get that one moment where like, holy crap, that is where everything started. That bug started it, my immune system got torqued and everything came from that. But how long did it take for you? You went through countless doctors, I have to assume, before anybody would listen. How long did it take till you had somebody say, Okay, wait a minute, we have a precipitating event that's leading to inflammation, till you started to feel like, I know they probably didn't give you all the answers, but you're like, Wait a minute, I think I found a path. When did that start happening? How long was it till somebody said, wait a minute. I think we're on a path here. Whether it was a doctor or a friend or whoever.

Jocelyn: 15:06

I'm 42, a couple of years ago. And that's with trying really hard.

Phil: 15:12

It was after we met, I think that you really started digging in. Like you were on the precipice of it when we first met.

Jocelyn: 15:19

Yes. When you and I first met, that was at the point too, where I just started, I started just researching leaky gut. Even my doctor, he said, there's no such thing as leaky gut. But I was like, this is the closest that I have found for anything. Cause when I'd go in for my colonoscopies, they would just tell me I had IBS and a spastic colon. That's all I was told. So then when they would give me medicine for this spastic colon, I'm like, this isn't doing anything. Like, I don't know, like, this isn't doing anything, but I had no idea until last year what a parasite was capable of. I had no idea what it could hold on to. I had no idea it could affect your brain. I had no idea that you could have them in different areas within, like people have said that they've had parasites even in their noses. Like I had no idea of how it could affect the body. I had no idea that this anxiety that had been created, I had no idea that that could even, be a cause of it all. And here, I went all these years with that parasite inside me. And people have parasites, but it totally jacked everything up, and it never got touched, and it never got taken care of for so many years, that I just think then it was at this point of, I mean, I have allergies year round now.

Phil: 16:41

And you will like, you will have them like you, what it did to your immune system because once it gets in there, it starts leaking all of these antibodies. So then your, your, your body says there's something going on here, but we always look at our immune system as being this brilliant system. It really is kind of like, they're kind of wild. It's wild west out there. That's all cowboys in there with our immune system.

Jocelyn: 17:02

Yes. I think everybody thought of immune system as vitamin C and cold. And that was it.

Phil: 17:09

They didn't even realize that the gut biome produces so many of its passive immunities like 50 percent of everything we learned so in your case, you're getting told everything that's good for you is bad because you have a parasite in there that's putting markers on every single thing. And that took you, I mean, only 26 years. It's fine. You have plenty of time.

Jocelyn: 17:32

In this world of agony for all these years.

Phil: 17:35

Yeah, it's fine. You can think you're crazy and fight off all the year. You've got an eating disorder. Like that has to be something you heard. Constantly.

Jocelyn: 17:44

I have, especially with being on social media too and being so slender, because I work out a lot, but between my metabolism andd what I can't eat. And the biggest thing was around when my second child. She was about three that I was like, whoa, I think food is, I think food is affecting me. Right. Um, and so I was not getting help at that point. I'd already had the colonoscopies. And so I started food journaling and I started writing down everything I had and all the ingredients that were in it. So obviously I'm trying to not eat out and I'm trying to not eat something that I don't know what's in it. So that I can write down everything that I ate and then I would write next to it. How did I feel after such and such time or until the next meal? And so then on the days I didn't feel good, I'd be like, okay, this day, you didn't feel good here. So, and this day you didn't feel good here. What's in common. And I just kept writing that down and just journaling it. And then that's when I was like, okay, um, red meat does not make me feel good, but chicken and turkey, I'm fine. Chocolate, caffeine, spicy foods, soy, I think that was the basics. So, at that point, I hadn't cut enough sugars, I didn't know deep down, like, things that I was actually allergic to. I didn't know anything like that. And then one time I went to an allergen specialist, and just to see what, cause I was having an issue with the trees, and the plants around me, and it was like, hey, but if you have these allergies, you could be sensitive to these foods. Once they even said that, I was like, wait. Those are the foods I'm sensitive to. Soy, dairy, like all these things that were popping up were the ones that I had already figured out that I couldn't have and I was like, Oh, this makes so much sense. So, that was what I did first and what I actually wish that people would do. Cause I can't tell you how many times people will be like, Oh, I know dairy doesn't make me feel good, but I still just eat it. And I'm like, you're willing to have symptoms and side effects. What?

Phil: 19:53

Right.

Jocelyn: 19:53

Because I was like, I don't want to live like this. I would rather not have it than have the side effect, but also for me I was having too many side effects.

Phil: 20:00

Right. So I've got, I've got a peanut allergy just to put it out there. And I will eat Reese's peanut butter cups and just know that I'm gonna, like my tongue starts to swell. And I always tell my wife, it's just a little bit of, of swelling in the tongue. It's not like I'm dying yet, but it's now moved. And I have that one simple one and you know, my wife, she has celiac disease and it really seems like. What happened is, is that people started noticing that they had these problems and it ended up being a way to quantify that a lot of the medical system that was entrenched started saying, well, this isn't real, this can't be, this isn't how it works, and it almost felt like there was a negative connotation put on a lot of people early on when they said, I can't eat gluten, I can't eat soy, I can't eat milk, and they started to look at you different. So in that moment you're in with. There are really good doctors out there. I always have to say that there are really good doctors and there are really good doctors that are too busy that in the moment don't say what they want. What are some of the things that you've heard from health care providers or from friends or family that really part of what we need to do in this world to make everybody nicer? So what I need to do is, we have to educate each other of what to say and not to say to people that are going through this. What are some of the things you wish people just hadn't said or done that maybe they wouldn't catch on to?

Jocelyn: 21:21

Well, even, even with one of the doctors saying there's no such thing as leaky gut because they didn't agree with it, when we are the ones that are like, okay, but these, we know ourselves the best.

Phil: 21:31

Yeah.

Jocelyn: 21:32

And truthfully, If you're going to a doctor because you have so many symptoms, the amount of time that they would actually need to sit with you and write down what is truly bothering you, they don't have that time. So you're trying to give the little brief diagnosis, you know, write down of it. It's like trying to fix a car. If I can only, if there's a lot of things going on in that car, but you're telling me, Give me the brief sum up of what it's doing. I'm gonna go listen to it. And then they go and turn on that car and they don't hear the problem that you're having, but you really truly have the problem. That's what's happening when we're going to the doctor. And so it's just listening to them. Like, you know what? I, I see you. I hear you. And if you don't know the dang answer, it's okay. Just say, you know what? Let me put a couple things together. I, I've actually been having some people tell me these exact same things. And what I've learned in medical school, I'm sorry, but medical school might have been 20, 30 years ago. So many things can change. So let me look this through. I want to make sure I give you that time.

Phil: 22:38

So you mentioned, absolutely, because leaky gut's like one of those things that 20 years ago, they didn't believe leaky gut was a thing. And now, little by little, it's like, oh, well, maybe, and then they put caveats around it, and things like that. And so, I think the idea that listening, We learn so much, and what we don't want to do is we don't want to look weak. Like, in the medical profession, we don't want to look weak in front of our patients. They came to us, they're giving us money, we want to look like we're efficient. And I think that the ability of saying, I have no idea what you're talking, let me give me some time is really hard for people. And I think it's really hard because then it's easier for you to say, ah, it's nothing like you'll get over it. You're just having, it's a, it's a convenient excuse to have. You know, I'm sure it'll be fine.

Jocelyn: 23:25

I think with doctors even if they said I've got to be honest with you I do have patients that have symptoms like yours and the way I've looked at it before I want to look into this more. I would respect a doctor so much more if they told me that versus you know, what you have anxiety Because see, now I have anxiety. My problem isn't anxiety. My problem is the root, right? So, instead of saying, well, let's give you these anxiety meds, that's not going to fix it. That is going to help in one way, but the anxiety isn't going to go away because the stomach problem is still too strong. So, if they say, I know that you have anxiety now, but that is stemming from somewhere, give me a little bit. But I think though, to the doctors, we're herding cattle, like get in one, get out the other. And, but it's always been that way for doctors. Like how many back in the day when they'd go do house visits and they just go from one to the other, to the other. And I think that if doctors are saying the internet is a dangerous thing, don't go Google. Why are we Googling? Because we didn't get the answer from our doctors.

Phil: 24:34

Yeah, I don't really buy that. Like, I, I gotta be honest. Like, everybody, I get asked a lot, like, because you have a lot of information. We put it out there on medical and people are like, oh, there's so much false information out there. And, and I say that information is information. It puts it on a spectrum. Everything has some limit of truth inside of it and we need to respect patients to be smart. So if you don't, if you keep saying just listen to what I say and don't listen to anybody else, that's a tremendous weight on the healthcare system. It would be much better to say, okay, what have you tried? What have you failed with? What have you seen success with? What do you want to try? And it's, it's a funny mindset because we've been in this cycle of evidence based medicine. So the idea is, is that we take a bunch of people, huge amounts of people, we throw them into a study. And then we take that data 20 years later and try to extrapolate it out for people saying that is the best information, but we live in a world now where we can know everything right now and we can pick it up. So I really think that evidence based medicine needs to be upgraded to, let me go look at studies today and yesterday and see what people are seeing.

Jocelyn: 25:43

Hear what people are saying. Yeah. And you also might find too that in the area that you live, if you're seeing a lot of people that are having more issues of that same thing, it can become very interesting to see like, it might even be our water. It might even be, you know, some of the things that we have if I'm seeing so many patients with the exact same things. But I think that's where doctors can really step up, and bridge the gap. There is a gap and the gap is communication that is missing and that's where, you know, we can be better. Cause it has been a lonely road for 26 years.

Phil: 26:20

Absolutely. Well, and you know, it's funny cause you bring up cattle cause I always look at it this way. If we had, if you and I were running cows, right. And we saw cows that were having leaky gut issues, PCOS at the level that we're seeing, anxiety at the levels we're seeing. We're seeing these cows, we quit looking at the individual cow and we're like, okay, what did we do to the herd?

Jocelyn: 26:37

Yeah, immediately. And you would immediately because you know that your cows are going to die if you don't.

Phil: 26:43

And you'd look at the herd, but it seems like in the medical system, what we keep doing is bringing the single cow in and say, well, this cow has this issue. Well, this cow has this issue. And we haven't taken a step back saying, okay, anxiety levels are higher now than they've ever been before. We're like, Oh, it's just Gen Z, they'll be fine, right? There's something else. You start looking at PCOS. Like you can now go through, even if you're not into hormonal disruption, you can walk through stores. You're like, wow, there's one, there's one, there's one, and you're seeing hormone disruption every place. And they keep saying, well, we're, you just need to eat better. You just need to exercise. You just need to like add more fiber. And it's an interesting commentary towards us that we haven't started taking a look at the whole system and saying, okay, it started out. Jocelyn was at the beginning. You had this precipitating event. Now look at how many kids are having the exact same thing you're having, but now there's no parasite. What, where did they get it from? What are we doing with our food? How did we do it to these people?

Jocelyn: 27:39

Right.

Phil: 27:39

And I think it takes people like you to come out and say, you know what? I'm done. We're doing it my way on every level, every mother, every father needs to say, none of this smells, right? I'm going to keep digging.

Jocelyn: 27:52

Exactly. And it's the digging that matters.

Phil: 27:55

Okay, so we're gonna look at two things so we can help people get through it first of all, you're in a place where I feel like you're getting better. You obviously have built these anxiety pathways over 26 years So like you're but I've seen you and you're like 180 degrees you have hope you feel better Like the first time I met you you were just like I'm always sick. There are barriers to getting better And some of those barriers are hard for people to find. What are some of those barriers that have really jumped out to you that were the hardest things do you get past so you can even get started on this pathway?

Jocelyn: 28:29

A huge barrier is if you don't feel good, you don't act good towards yourself. You speak words that are negative. You say things that are hateful. This didn't even cross my mind till a couple months ago when I would say I'm never going to get better. That, you know, you're telling your body, you're never going to get better. Instead of giving your body hope, like we can get through this one step at a time, let's just work on this one thing. We're going to work on the next, see, just like, if you say that to yourself, like, say, I'm never going to get better. How does your insides feel? Now say. We're going to do this one little step. Let's get through this first. Then how does your insides feel? You can feel it just by saying those words to yourself. That was my biggest, my biggest thing. And some days I will cry to my husband and say, I'm never going to get better. And After I'm done saying that, I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, because it wasn't, it wasn't needed and it's just adding to it.

Phil: 29:29

Yeah. There's also the financial barriers. That's such a huge thing. Like when you talk about your food journaling, that to be able to eat right now is way too expensive too. And that's one of those things where you have to make the commitment, but it's worth the financial I would assume?

Jocelyn: 29:42

Yeah, but everybody keeps bringing up money to me for eating, and I get that too, but at the same time, so if, if you go and get a, a processed food, that's gonna be running through you way faster, and one package of processed food can't feed the family very much, so you have to buy two and three just to do it, and then you have no leftovers. And then I can buy just rice, I can buy a couple peppers, I can buy like four things of chicken and I can make this big thing or add chicken broth and make a giant pot. And that is going to have us leftovers for days and days, but that's also going to fill the body with a longer longevity of how full, how long you feel full versus that fast food that's very short. So now we're reaching for snacks. Now we're reaching for more junk food. And that junk food is expensive.

Phil: 30:30

I knew I'd set it up on the tee. You would just hit it for a home run because that's the thing. So we've been told it's more expensive. And you're like, wait, who told me that? How did those Oreos cost more than celery? I think. And I got, and I got told that the Oreos were cheaper. Like it's funny. I know I'd set it up and you'd hit it because that's the advertising. They've told us it's more expensive, like it's ingrained in us. And you're like, I think that bag of potatoes for$6 was cheaper than the potato chips. Oh, and I've got 10 pounds.

Jocelyn: 31:00

Yeah. I can make so many meals out of that bag of potatoes. And, but we just, we don't. And I, in that time when I was super poor food stamps and all the things grateful for food stamps, but I see what you could truly do with your food. And, but people just keep telling us it costs so much. It does cost money, but also we got leftovers. We got meals. We can make out of that sucker. So it's how we look at it too.

Phil: 31:29

So I'm going to run through these next ones just so I can get it out there. First of all, worst advice. So everybody goes through this. You get all this advice and there's some advice, good, some of that worst advice that you got through the whole process.

Jocelyn: 31:39

That that's not what you have, that that's not what it is. Or that it's IBS. Okay, I don't want to be told I have IBS. Don't tell me I have IBS, because that's not my problem. Like, my problem is there's something else going on.

Phil: 31:52

Absolutely. Never settle. See, you're so good at all this. This is why I needed you. And then, best advice, like the best thing you told yourself, somebody told you, what is the very best thing you've heard?

Jocelyn: 32:01

The best advice is to keep digging, to just keep digging. And, and maybe that was even just my own Like will is like you have to have the will to do it because it is tiring. Somebody told me the other day, I'm tired of fighting it. I'm like, I get you, but it's the will to learn. And if you don't take the time to learn, then you are hosing yourself at the end because you are your best advocate.

Phil: 32:26

Every single time you're the best advocate. So when people are listening to this, you've got somebody saying, okay, I have this gut issue. I go 30 minutes. I have to use it all the time. I've been told it's IBS, which is fine But it really doesn't give you any answers. It's just like fine, right? And I don't really believe in like saying I wish I would have never or if there was something. But I do believe there are lessons that I wish that I would have just learned without having to live through them? Are there lessons you wish you wouldn't have had to live through, but you did and you learned and you're at where you're at now, but are there lessons you wish you would have just listened to somebody and when they said something or you would have just not had to live, you just could have found the information?

Jocelyn: 33:05

I wish I would have found the information. I wish I would have dug. I wish I would have known that if you feel like crap, stop just living with the symptoms. I wish I wouldn't have allowed my self esteem to be affected by it. I wish I would have had the courage to tell myself, Jocelyn, you're amazing, you're good, go find what's wrong. You go find what's wrong. You search. People say I don't know where to start. Just start. What are your symptoms? How do you feel? And honestly, start with the gut. As in, the gut lining and the immune system. Start with the immune system. All of the, all of the autoimmune diseases we're seeing now start with your immune system,

Phil: 33:39

Something setting them off. And that's the thing that's really important to say is that they're not wrong about the autoimmune, but something set off the immune system. And if you don't chase that down, it's never going to work for you. A hundred percent. So Jocelyn. Where do we find you? How do we get people to follow you so they could know how to find that smile she is just fun. I mean, even if you don't like hair, go follow her because she is just fun. She truly, when she's in her element and she's her, she is somebody who you would want to hang out with all the time. So how do people find you so they can come follow, listen, and learn?

Jocelyn: 34:15

Oh, I'm everywhere. But Jocelyn.McClellan. My name's hard on both ways on Instagram. And then on YouTube, I kind of took a little hiatus, but I'm coming back. And, I've got a good page over there too. You can find me on TikTok and you can find me on Facebook as well. Fit Mission Makeup with Jocelyn McClellan. So I kind of got it all.

Phil: 34:38

Well, thank you. You were awesome. Like I knew you will always would be. And if you ever need anything, you better ask.

Jocelyn: 34:45

Yeah, I will always, always, always, always. You're amazing. I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. I'm excited for this podcast and excited for everything that you have going for you too.

Phil: 34:54

Well, thank you so much.